Thursday, August 20, 2009

"We are God's partners in matters of life and death." Who said that?

There's an interesting post on Politico yesterday by Ben Smith entitled, "We are God's partners in matters of life and death."

A reader points out that President Obama's call with the rabbis today — as recorded in Rabbi Jack Moline's and other clerics' Twitter feeds — freights health care reform with a great deal of religious meaning, and veers into the blend of policy and faith that outraged liberals in the last administration.

"We are God's partners in matters of life and death," Obama said, according to Moline (paging Sarah Palin...), quoting from the Rosh Hashanah prayer that says that in the holiday period, it is decided "who shall live and who shall die."

The president ended the call by wishing the rabbis "shanah tovah," or happy new year — in reference to the High Holidays a month from now.

Who said that? Must be some leader from the religious right. Wrong. It is President Obama who said this in a conference call with rabbis on his health care reform proposal.

I think it's fine. The more integration of moral discourse in the public square the better. However, one still has to critically evaluate what's actually being said and whether it lines up with what's right and good.

In the case of Obama's push for more government controlled health care I think it moves us farther away from what's right and good. It will mean rationing of care by the government, abortion coverage, premature ending of the lives of many seniors, and of course cost us a lot more money.

Of course, just because one invokes the name of God don't assume it's right and good. Case in point are the ELCA Lutherans and the push of many in that denomination to endorse homosexual behavior, behavior which is clearly a violation of Scriptural standards, and the "Law of Nature and Nature's God", terminology employed by the Founders to describe the grounding of what's truth.


Christ Believer said...

your viewing and understanding and use of God is yours, not everyones. That doesn't make it right or good, and someone elses isn't right or better or worse than yours. Your judgemental ways are against your scriptures but I do not see a curb on that.

A respectful response of religious response, and or statements on one own religion is not the same as politics. President Obama has always stated he was a man who belived in God and that he was a christian.

Jesus was a liberal said...

Once again you mix up the idea of politics and religion. You can surely be religous but not lead based on sole idea of that one religion. A good leader understands that there are many choices, and many ways to live one's life. The judgemental and condensending tone of saying that one man's religion is right or good over another is so offensive I can not even come up with words to describe how offensive and wrong that is.

Right and Good? REALLY? are you at the right hand of the father? are you God himself? WOW! THE ARROGANCE!

Minnesota Family Council said...

"Jesus...", I respect that you are the only person to respond to this thread regarding church and state however, accusing the blogger of being "God himself" while naming yourself "Jesus.." is revealing.

Let's get back to the question. Has Obama violated separation of church and state?

Elaine said...

He is a person, not politics it self. he is alowed to be religious, but he can't rule on opinion of his own religion and his own religion alone.

To speak of church while being a polition is not breaking of anything church and state, to put into law a thought that is only based on a scripture line is an example of breaking church and state line.

An Person who believes in no God, at all can be respectful and Wish someone a high holey day mean it.

One does not have to be of no god to have seperation of God and State. We can live with millions of faith lines, and all of them are of truth faith line. Because that is where we will always differ, you see ONLY YOUR VIEW as truth. Instead of as truth for you. One invokes the name of God, in the way they view God, and the way they Worship or not worship their God. To enforce or to have only one truth is where you would have a religious state. And that is a terrorist state, that is a dictatorship state, and is no different than A state where no religion is allowed.

Jesus was a liberal said...

I have named myself "Jesus" I have named myself for reasons of this blog "Jesus was a liberal" it is a statement.

You have stated in your own words.

just because one invokes the name of God don't assume it's right and good.Case in point are the ELCA Lutherans and the push of many in that denomination to endorse homosexual behavior, behavior which is clearly a violation of Scriptural standards, and the "Law of Nature and Nature's God", terminology employed by the Founders to describe the grounding of what's truth.

Therefore you are stating what is right and good. Therefore you must think of youself better, higher, and more knowing than anyone else who has a different view, or different religion than yours.

Your religion is not the only truth.

Most of the writings in the Old Testaments are authored by anonymous Israelites, and in many cases it is not known whether they were compiled by individuals or groups.

No copy of the original bible translation exists.

The Jewish Bible, or Tanakh, is traditionally reckoned to have 24 books.

Christian Old Testaments differ among various branches of Christianity:

Protestant Old Testaments have 39 books (these are the same contents as the Tanakh, but divided and numbered differently)
Roman Catholic Old Testaments have 46 books (the Tanakh plus 7 additional pre-Christian, Jewish books)
Greek Orthodox and Slavonic Orthodox Old Testaments have 51 books each, but not exactly the same 51 books

Ethiopian Orthodox Old Testaments are traditionally numbered at 46 books, but the number can be calculated in different ways; this Old Testament includes three books not found in the other Bibles mentioned here.

Most Christian New Testaments have 27 books. The Ethiopian Orthodox New Testament, however, has 35 books.

The total lengths for various Bibles, then, are:

Jewish Bible (Tanakh), 24 books
Protestant Bible, 66 books
Catholic Bible, 73 books
Greek Orthodox Bible, 78 books (not identical to Slavonic Orthodox)

Slavonic Orthodox Bible, 78 books (not identical to Greek Orthodox)
Ethiopian Orthodox Bible, 81 books
Other variations exist.

Minnesota Family Council said...

Elaine, thank you for participating in this thread.

You can't have it both ways. Obama is lobbying religious leaders to support his truth. He is motivated by his faith and trying to force it on the rest of the nation.

Clearly this is mixing politics and religion - and it seems that you supoprt it.

Jesus was a liberal said...

Then there are the lost bible books.

The lost books of the Bible were not really lost - they were suppressed. The many biblical writings which Jerome chose not to include in the canon of the Bible that we know of include the Gospel of Judas, the Gospel of Thomas, the Second Gospel of Mark, the Acts of Peter and Thecla, the Second Gospel of Peter ... and many more.

Over the centuries people who misunderstood or misinterpreted the Bible have done terrible things. The Bible has been misused to defend bloody crusades and tragic inquisitions; to support slavery, apartheid, and segregation; to persecute Jews and other non-Christian people of faith; to support Hitler's Third Reich and the Holocaust; to oppose medical science; to condemn interracial marriage; to execute women as witches; and to support the Ku Klux Klan. Shakespeare said it this way: "Even the devil can cite Scripture for his purpose."

So again, you know the truth? The only Truth and that Truth is the Truth for everyone?

Minnesota Family Council said...

"Jesus," why are you avoiding the question? Clearly, Obama has mixed politics and religion by lobbying pastors to support his political legislation.

I suspect that you, and many other regulars, are troubled by this but your bias enables your double standard.

I guess mixing politics and faith is only wrong when you disagree with the politician or issue.

Jesus was a liberal said...

no it doesn't your the one skirting the idea of what is right and wrong.

A person who directs their thoughts onto law, and forces one's thoughts onto another person is wrong.

You are ok with only one thought for the whole country you are the one with the "one truth"

Saying to all the preachers all over the place speak out to all your people, and bring up dialog about what is right or wrong, is what all people should be promoting.

the cross of church and state is in the law, not in the speaking which is protected by the law.

If you need a Totally Godless society I suggest you find a country that dictates that.

In our society we have the choice to have or have not God in our lives. And to not force it on to another person, and there is no one man's truth to even Your TRUTH. Because you contradict yourself at every turn.

Blog mole said...

You regular detractors are getting boring.