Commentary on pro-family issues in the media, politics and in the public square.
Monday, May 19, 2008
Thank you Gov. Pawlenty
Thank you Gov. Tim Pawlenty for answering the requests of thousands of callers by opposing comprehensive sex education, gestational surrogacy and efforts to legalize same sex marriage - to name just a few.
i am confused. how can you be pro family and object to gestational surrogacy? for many this is the only way that they can have families. you are obviously uneducated.
In the case of the Minnesota Family Council the term "pro-family" is code for "anti-gay". Look at how much of their rhetoric is about their hostility towards gays.
Hey Lloydletta, I would say the term "pro-family" applies to MFC and I wouldn't characterize their position as hostility towards gays as much as it is concern for the impact the radical gay agenda can have on families. Particularly those that don't teach their children and don't want their children taught this stuff.
pro family is a mask for anti gay. that is an understatement.
I am sure if a sister was going to carry a child for another who was not able to, the pro family would be out there in droves. but as soon as its about a same sex couple your in uproar.
I have been with my partner for 40years. One person. one family. brought up a child together. that child is happy, healthy, striaght, and educated. We pay our taxes, we volunteer, and donate a huge chunk of our money to help those that can't help themselves.
There has been no drugs, no violence in our home.
I take in abandoned animals and foster them till they can be taken by others.
I have set up a trust for my grandchild. The meger savings of two people.
My partner has a brain tumor. when they pass, from the normal, non cliche illness, I will stand alone. One mate, one soul, can not be replaced.
but, you sit and judge me? You stand in the way of allowing me the same civil rights as you, because your religion is different than mine?
To the gay grandparent, All I ask is that you don't tell me I have to agree with your lifestyle and to teach it to kids in our public schools. If you choose to live your life this way, then these are the things you are going to have to deal with. Gays are not asking for civil rights, they want special rights.
absolutely NOT! I want to be able to be married, have the right to be at the death bed of my loved ones, and my children's bed side in the hospital.
YOU are the ones that have the special rights.
I think that you do follow more than just parts of the bible, you still have the egotisical edge to hold slaves if it was permitted!
I hear the gay grandparents sadness, torment and abuse they had endured over the years from the likes of YOU, you are blind! and will have to deal with it when YOU meet GOD
Learn what? Who says I believe everything written in the Bible? You can be a believer in God and not agree with a very overly interpreted Bible. And besides that if YOU read the Bible, you would realize that Jesus did NOT condone slavery and neither do I. But since you are so protecting gay rights at the enslavement of women, I can only suspect that you will stand on your soapbox and spew out antifemale hate and call everyone around you ignorant and stupid. Really the stupidest people are the ones that defend an ethical wrong against humanity and the gain of one individual over the torture of another is NEVER ok. If gay men want babies so badly, they should grow a vagina or ask their female relatives to be surrogates without a big financial compensation, not steal babies from impoverished women. Traditional surrogacy is so so wrong and so is paid gestational surrogacy. A child has the right to both parents and that is that. We will never be able to snuff out a child's biological desire to know their parents no matter how technologically advanced we get. Besides which you can never use the argument that if God didn't want us to use surrogacy He would have never given us the gift to be able to do it. God also gave us the gift of inventing guns, should we just go out and start shooting everyone just because we can? I feel for infertile couples, I do. But if they don't have loving supportive people in their lives that might consider being a surrogate that they have to go to a stranger to put yet another woman through the crime of surrogacy, then should they really be having babies to begin with? I would question anyone that doesn't have a huge support system. All in all SURROGACY IS WRONG in so many ways. Get it through your big gay head.
Jesus is recorded as mentioning slaves in one of his parables. It is important to realize that the term "servant" in the King James Version of the Bible refers to slaves, not employees like a butler, cook, or maid. Here, a slave which did not follow his owner's will would be beaten with many lashes of a whip. A slave who was unaware of his owner's will, but who did not behave properly, would also be beaten, but with fewer stripes.
This would have been a marvelous opportunity for Jesus to condemn the institution of slavery and its abuse of slaves. But he is not recorded of having taken it
Mother Mary was not a surrogate you idiot. She was a Mother. She didn't sign a contract and she didn't have artificial insemination. What happened to Mary was an act of God like someone surviving against all odds. It was a miracle not an agreement in exchange for money and she never had to walk away from her child. You are really stupid
Using a surrogate mother to bear children for a childless couple is as old as Abraham and Sarah in Genesis chapter 16. Sarah could not bear children, so she gave her servant, Hagar, to Abraham so she could have his children.
Rachel and her husband Jacob. Rachel commanded her servant to allow herself to be impregnated by Jacob, with a resulting successful pregnancy. The Bible records two other examples of surrogacy. Jacob——and his other wife Leah used Leah's servant Zilpah; also, Sarai and Abram used Sarai's servant Hagar for the same purpose.
Hagar was always Ishmael's mother, never Sarah. Look up Chapter 21 when Sarah casts Hagar and her son out and Chapter 22 when God does not acknowledge Ishmael as Abraham's son, only Isaac Sarah's actual son. This leaves Ishmael with only one parent. Hagar the mother that bore him and was always his Mother.
Those biblical people went against the will of God. Abraham didn't believe God when He told him he would give them a child, he became impatient. He took matters into his own hands. There's been problems ever since (Jews and Muslims). Same with Jacob and his wives. That wasn't what God wanted for them either. I believe Christians who can't have children should adopt. I don't believe in ANY scientific means of getting pregnant or getting a child.
I just have issues of how certain groups come by their moral structure. One minute they are spewing the bible, and how the bible tells us so! It is written therefore we will follow it, but then 99 percent of all the other text will be abolished, updated, or society has gone past, such as slavery, which is hugely condoned in the bible.
Surrogacy, is a formal adoption process, where there is a host to guide the new parents. The one birthing the child, is not always the biological mother. Sometimes they are.
It is adoption. Another route to adoption. If you do not like it don't do it.
I personally feel that someone that doesn't use birthcontrol, when they can not afford children are wrong. But many Religious beliefs will not allow for any form of birthcontrol, therefore in a marriage, under their religion they still give birth to many many children, and often can not afford them. Who pays for those children? I do as the tax payer. I am the slave then. I am the one that is forced to be part of an act I did not sign up for, unlike a surrogate.
How about the idea that the world is hugely populated, and that with global warming, economics and the long lives we live, that people should not be having so many children? But the religious right winged cults need to birth more into their brainwashing.
I am not sure how the facts of gay life and sex is about surrogates, but I can say that all people have the right to do what is within the law. And law should never be directed by religion of any kind.
Sorrogacy is not formal adoption, it is forced adoption. Read the bill the woman can never change her mind. In adoption, the woman can't even try to give up her baby until 72 hours after the birth and even then she has 90 days to do it. Once a contract is signed whether it is illegally altered or whatever, the woman has no recourse. This kind of bogus justice is happening everyday-open your eyes.
"In its narrowest sense, the word slave refers to people who are treated as the property of another person, household, company, corporation or government. This is referred to as chattel slavery."
Even if the surrogate changes her mind during pregnancy sha can't do anything about it except have the baby and give it away. She could also be forced to have an abortion if there is more than one fetus. Once she signs the contract that enslaves her for the rest of her life that is that. She may feel one way one day but may change her mind completely while going through the process. No other contract in the nation holds you to this kind of barbaric enslavement. You can get out of most contracts by paying extra fees but not with this and this is a human life. A human life bought and sold=slavery. A contract you can't get out of=slavery. Forceful maternal seperation=slavery. The only other contracts like this are when you sell your soul. So I guess surrogacy is really selling your soul.You have no right to comment unless you have been someway involved in the process. You are nothing but a blogger with an opinion trying to condone enslavement of women to further your own gay agenda. I won't give you the satisfaction of commenting anymore, you are nothing to me.
No it was not hurtful and vindictive, it was empoering. It is saying you cannot insult and belittle me because I won't let you. But I think you don't understand anything that isn't about you or centered around you. Antihomosexuality does not equal antislavery that is just ridiculous. About as ridiculous as saying you want me to accept you even though it goes against my beliefs so you must be a nazi. You want me to change into what you want me to be so you must be an abusive person. You want me to forget the pain I've been caused by the gay community and love you so you must be Charles Manson with the desire to brainwash me. Are you? A control freak, brain washing nazi?
And yes, if your anit homosexual you are a bigot. You are a bigot against homosexuals. So you need to own that. Its yours. Not mine. I have my own bigotries, because everyone does. We all have our belief's and we all base our lives on them. But to try and ensure that the world follows your one religion is the real NAZI here.
I base my anti homosexuality on the way homosexuals have treated me and you are no different. You have insulted and belittled me because I believe it's wrong for two men to lie together. I didn't always feel that way but I do now. also think that the laws protect you as well as families. You have antihate laws to protect you. You do not belong in the category of a man and a woman marrying to procreate. That is just a scientific fact not a bigotry. I am ok with you having a civil union but not a marriage. You don't want just rights, you want to bully your way into places that just aren't your to bully into. You want to pretend you have a vagina and erase mothers from children's lives, you want to pretend to be a man and a woman getting married when you just are not that. I am not white, I can never check caucasian on anything and I don't feel that I should change the laws to make it so I can. I don't have citizenship to any foreign country so I don't feel like I should whine and pout until I do. Get over yourself already you have a lot going for the gay communtiy and you know it. You do not promote gay rights as much as you try to demote heterosexuals rights. It is a heterosexual's right to be in a marriage that is defined bey law to be a marriage. It is a mother's right to be with her child. I do not believe in empowering your rights at the expense of others, end of story. If you want to do something productive, really productive, get off of this blog where you are shoving your crap down my throat and go volunteer. I volunteered for AIDS benefits three years in a row, I bet you haven't.
By the way I am an Black woman and I find your refernces to being anti homosexual to proslavery very offensive. Your people have not had to endure hundreds of years of slavery. You are not the first ones blamed in a crime. The difference between you and I is that I try to teach people acceptance through patience and love. I don't go on white people's websites and start fights. I do not believe in homosexuality but I would sit with any one of you on a bus and I would not stand by and watch someone beat you up, I would help if I could. But your community has been hateful and cruel towards me and as a black woman I have seen my share of hate but nothing as bad as what the gay man and gay people who knew about it put me through so don't talk to me about acceptance anymore until you can actually show some. When someone comes to me with stories of how black people have hurt them, I apologize and invite them over for dinner or to attend my church. I don't scream at them and belittle them and make them hate me even more than the angry feelings they are already feeling. You want compassion? You damn well better start showing some. You won't get anywhere with your attitude the way it is young man.
43 comments:
i am confused. how can you be pro family and object to gestational surrogacy? for many this is the only way that they can have families. you are obviously uneducated.
In the case of the Minnesota Family Council the term "pro-family" is code for "anti-gay". Look at how much of their rhetoric is about their hostility towards gays.
Hey Lloydletta,
I would say the term "pro-family" applies to MFC and I wouldn't characterize their position as hostility towards gays as much as it is concern for the impact the radical gay agenda can have on families. Particularly those that don't teach their children and don't want their children taught this stuff.
pro family is a mask for anti gay. that is an understatement.
I am sure if a sister was going to carry a child for another who was not able to, the pro family would be out there in droves. but as soon as its about a same sex couple your in uproar.
I have been with my partner for 40years. One person. one family. brought up a child together. that child is happy, healthy, striaght, and educated. We pay our taxes, we volunteer, and donate a huge chunk of our money to help those that can't help themselves.
There has been no drugs, no violence in our home.
I take in abandoned animals and foster them till they can be taken by others.
I have set up a trust for my grandchild. The meger savings of two people.
My partner has a brain tumor. when they pass, from the normal, non cliche illness, I will stand alone. One mate, one soul, can not be replaced.
but, you sit and judge me? You stand in the way of allowing me the same civil rights as you, because your religion is different than mine?
That is the real sin.
signed, a gay grandparent.
To the gay grandparent,
All I ask is that you don't tell me I have to agree with your lifestyle and to teach it to kids in our public schools. If you choose to live your life this way, then these are the things you are going to have to deal with. Gays are not asking for civil rights, they want special rights.
absolutely NOT! I want to be able to be married, have the right to be at the death bed of my loved ones, and my children's bed side in the hospital.
YOU are the ones that have the special rights.
I think that you do follow more than just parts of the bible, you still have the egotisical edge to hold slaves if it was permitted!
I hear the gay grandparents sadness, torment and abuse they had endured over the years from the likes of YOU, you are blind! and will have to deal with it when YOU meet GOD
ooooo SLAVERY was abolished long ago. You sinner! the bible doesn't only condone it but has laws for it! Learn before you speak!
Learn what? Who says I believe everything written in the Bible? You can be a believer in God and not agree with a very overly interpreted Bible. And besides that if YOU read the Bible, you would realize that Jesus did NOT condone slavery and neither do I. But since you are so protecting gay rights at the enslavement of women, I can only suspect that you will stand on your soapbox and spew out antifemale hate and call everyone around you ignorant and stupid. Really the stupidest people are the ones that defend an ethical wrong against humanity and the gain of one individual over the torture of another is NEVER ok. If gay men want babies so badly, they should grow a vagina or ask their female relatives to be surrogates without a big financial compensation, not steal babies from impoverished women. Traditional surrogacy is so so wrong and so is paid gestational surrogacy. A child has the right to both parents and that is that. We will never be able to snuff out a child's biological desire to know their parents no matter how technologically advanced we get. Besides which you can never use the argument that if God didn't want us to use surrogacy He would have never given us the gift to be able to do it. God also gave us the gift of inventing guns, should we just go out and start shooting everyone just because we can? I feel for infertile couples, I do. But if they don't have loving supportive people in their lives that might consider being a surrogate that they have to go to a stranger to put yet another woman through the crime of surrogacy, then should they really be having babies to begin with? I would question anyone that doesn't have a huge support system. All in all SURROGACY IS WRONG in so many ways. Get it through your big gay head.
Mother Mary was a Surrogate.
So get that around your big homophobic head.
The same book that you take your anti gay laws not only condones slavery but gives detail laws for it. How do you say you do not condone slavery?
You choose to pick and throw out the parts of the bible to fit your needs.
And besides, my head is neither gay or big. You just assume as you did with my soap box that was.
"jesus did not condone slavery"
Wrong.
Jesus is recorded as mentioning slaves in one of his parables. It is important to realize that the term "servant" in the King James Version of the Bible refers to slaves, not employees like a butler, cook, or maid. Here, a slave which did not follow his owner's will would be beaten with many lashes of a whip. A slave who was unaware of his owner's will, but who did not behave properly, would also be beaten, but with fewer stripes.
This would have been a marvelous opportunity for Jesus to condemn the institution of slavery and its abuse of slaves. But he is not recorded of having taken it
yes, but you form your opinions on the bile.
mary mother was a surrogate, was she wrong?
the bible says slavery is ok.
is the bible your moral ground? Is the bible the compas that all christains use to state what they believe and what they don't believe?
if it wasn't for "surrogacy slavery" as you call it, the son of God would not have been born.
She had no choice, she woke up from the angel and was told you had to be.
In surrogacy today, people have the choice to do it or not.
so unless you want to play God yourself, stay out of peoples sexual lives, and how people become parents.
Mother Mary was not a surrogate you idiot. She was a Mother. She didn't sign a contract and she didn't have artificial insemination. What happened to Mary was an act of God like someone surviving against all odds. It was a miracle not an agreement in exchange for money and she never had to walk away from her child. You are really stupid
Any more name calling and crude language will be deleted.
Using a surrogate mother to bear children for a childless couple is as old as Abraham and Sarah in Genesis chapter 16. Sarah could not bear children, so she gave her servant, Hagar, to Abraham so she could have his children.
Luk 1:38
And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord, be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
Mother Mary was Crowned Queen of the Heaven for her job of carrying Jesus. So yes she was paid.
Rachel and her husband Jacob. Rachel commanded her servant to allow herself to be impregnated by Jacob, with a resulting successful pregnancy. The Bible records two other examples of surrogacy. Jacob——and his other wife Leah used Leah's servant Zilpah; also, Sarai and Abram used Sarai's servant Hagar for the same purpose.
Hagar was always Ishmael's mother, never Sarah. Look up Chapter 21 when Sarah casts Hagar and her son out and Chapter 22 when God does not acknowledge Ishmael as Abraham's son, only Isaac Sarah's actual son. This leaves Ishmael with only one parent. Hagar the mother that bore him and was always his Mother.
How does that make MOTHER Mary a surrogate? She was ALWAYS Jesus' Mother. From Beginning to end, no one stole him from her.
Those biblical people went against the will of God. Abraham didn't believe God when He told him he would give them a child, he became impatient. He took matters into his own hands. There's been problems ever since (Jews and Muslims). Same with Jacob and his wives. That wasn't what God wanted for them either. I believe Christians who can't have children should adopt. I don't believe in ANY scientific means of getting pregnant or getting a child.
Mary wsa titled handmaid of the lord. and was given the crown of queen of the heaven for her work for god.
That made her a paid mother.
And as a christain, don't get pregnant for someone else, and don't have someone get pregnant for you then.
but do not tell others how to do it.
Your family is not the only correct family. That is the trouble with special one interest like groups like you.
I just have issues of how certain groups come by their moral structure. One minute they are spewing the bible, and how the bible tells us so! It is written therefore we will follow it, but then 99 percent of all the other text will be abolished, updated, or society has gone past, such as slavery, which is hugely condoned in the bible.
Surrogacy, is a formal adoption process, where there is a host to guide the new parents. The one birthing the child, is not always the biological mother. Sometimes they are.
It is adoption. Another route to adoption. If you do not like it don't do it.
I personally feel that someone that doesn't use birthcontrol, when they can not afford children are wrong. But many Religious beliefs will not allow for any form of birthcontrol, therefore in a marriage, under their religion they still give birth to many many children, and often can not afford them. Who pays for those children? I do as the tax payer. I am the slave then. I am the one that is forced to be part of an act I did not sign up for, unlike a surrogate.
How about the idea that the world is hugely populated, and that with global warming, economics and the long lives we live, that people should not be having so many children? But the religious right winged cults need to birth more into their brainwashing.
I am not sure how the facts of gay life and sex is about surrogates, but I can say that all people have the right to do what is within the law. And law should never be directed by religion of any kind.
Sorrogacy is not formal adoption, it is forced adoption. Read the bill the woman can never change her mind. In adoption, the woman can't even try to give up her baby until 72 hours after the birth and even then she has 90 days to do it. Once a contract is signed whether it is illegally altered or whatever, the woman has no recourse. This kind of bogus justice is happening everyday-open your eyes.
When a woman carry's another persons child, that child should be brought up with the intended parents.
What if Mary stood up and said errr no I am not going to carry this child? Did she have a choice? NO, but surrogacy today does.
When you take away the choice after the birth of the child that is slavery. Surrogacy=slavery
When you force the pregnancy its Slavery.
When you force someone to work, its slavery.
A person decides to gets pregnant, its not slavery.
"In its narrowest sense, the word slave refers to people who are treated as the property of another person, household, company, corporation or government. This is referred to as chattel slavery."
Even if the surrogate changes her mind during pregnancy sha can't do anything about it except have the baby and give it away. She could also be forced to have an abortion if there is more than one fetus. Once she signs the contract that enslaves her for the rest of her life that is that. She may feel one way one day but may change her mind completely while going through the process. No other contract in the nation holds you to this kind of barbaric enslavement. You can get out of most contracts by paying extra fees but not with this and this is a human life. A human life bought and sold=slavery. A contract you can't get out of=slavery. Forceful maternal seperation=slavery. The only other contracts like this are when you sell your soul. So I guess surrogacy is really selling your soul.You have no right to comment unless you have been someway involved in the process. You are nothing but a blogger with an opinion trying to condone enslavement of women to further your own gay agenda. I won't give you the satisfaction of commenting anymore, you are nothing to me.
"you are nothing to me"
Very very Christ like. Not
When I say you are nothing to me it means I won't give you the power to silence and belittle me.
No it was not hurtful and vindictive, it was empoering. It is saying you cannot insult and belittle me because I won't let you. But I think you don't understand anything that isn't about you or centered around you. Antihomosexuality does not equal antislavery that is just ridiculous. About as ridiculous as saying you want me to accept you even though it goes against my beliefs so you must be a nazi. You want me to change into what you want me to be so you must be an abusive person. You want me to forget the pain I've been caused by the gay community and love you so you must be Charles Manson with the desire to brainwash me. Are you? A control freak, brain washing nazi?
How do you base yoru anti homosexuality? is it your religion that is based on your bible? on the laws that the bible has given you?
If so then you have laws that condone slavery.
Same same same.
And yes, if your anit homosexual you are a bigot. You are a bigot against homosexuals. So you need to own that. Its yours. Not mine. I have my own bigotries, because everyone does. We all have our belief's and we all base our lives on them. But to try and ensure that the world follows your one religion is the real NAZI here.
I base my anti homosexuality on the way homosexuals have treated me and you are no different. You have insulted and belittled me because I believe it's wrong for two men to lie together. I didn't always feel that way but I do now. also think that the laws protect you as well as families. You have antihate laws to protect you. You do not belong in the category of a man and a woman marrying to procreate. That is just a scientific fact not a bigotry. I am ok with you having a civil union but not a marriage. You don't want just rights, you want to bully your way into places that just aren't your to bully into. You want to pretend you have a vagina and erase mothers from children's lives, you want to pretend to be a man and a woman getting married when you just are not that. I am not white, I can never check caucasian on anything and I don't feel that I should change the laws to make it so I can. I don't have citizenship to any foreign country so I don't feel like I should whine and pout until I do. Get over yourself already you have a lot going for the gay communtiy and you know it. You do not promote gay rights as much as you try to demote heterosexuals rights. It is a heterosexual's right to be in a marriage that is defined bey law to be a marriage. It is a mother's right to be with her child. I do not believe in empowering your rights at the expense of others, end of story. If you want to do something productive, really productive, get off of this blog where you are shoving your crap down my throat and go volunteer. I volunteered for AIDS benefits three years in a row, I bet you haven't.
By the way I am an Black woman and I find your refernces to being anti homosexual to proslavery very offensive. Your people have not had to endure hundreds of years of slavery. You are not the first ones blamed in a crime. The difference between you and I is that I try to teach people acceptance through patience and love. I don't go on white people's websites and start fights. I do not believe in homosexuality but I would sit with any one of you on a bus and I would not stand by and watch someone beat you up, I would help if I could. But your community has been hateful and cruel towards me and as a black woman I have seen my share of hate but nothing as bad as what the gay man and gay people who knew about it put me through so don't talk to me about acceptance anymore until you can actually show some. When someone comes to me with stories of how black people have hurt them, I apologize and invite them over for dinner or to attend my church. I don't scream at them and belittle them and make them hate me even more than the angry feelings they are already feeling. You want compassion? You damn well better start showing some. You won't get anywhere with your attitude the way it is young man.
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